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PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 3:41 am 
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Location: Australia
From my experience, speed doesn't come from the number of words required to create a command, but instead from knowing what to type (correct syntax) or what needs to be done next in terms of plot or puzzle progression (well-implemented design and player familiarity with interactive fiction).

In terms of a mobile device as a format, a large percentage of my IF playing is done on my iPhone (using iFrotz). The few times that I actually find using the keyboard annoying are: when I'm required to enter numbers and letters (I have to keep alternating virtual keyboard layouts); or when the author has used a long or unusual name for an NPC I need to engage with. Both are easily rectified by the author.

For the rest of what's been said, Zarf and Dannii have this in the bag.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2010 8:31 pm 
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therealeasterbunny wrote:
The results for the IFCOMP are now out and 24th out of 26th place isn't that bad :mrgreen: - I'm quite happy really


How disappointing. It sounds like you didn't care about a good rating in the first place.

Seems I have correctly assessed your entry.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 3:01 am 
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Retro wrote:
therealeasterbunny wrote:
The results for the IFCOMP are now out and 24th out of 26th place isn't that bad :mrgreen: - I'm quite happy really


How disappointing. It sounds like you didn't care about a good rating in the first place.

Seems I have correctly assessed your entry.


No, you misunderstand me. Of course it would have been nicer to get a ranking up the ladder and yes, you normally enter a competition to win, but one of the reasons I entered was to see how the reaction was to the old school two word parsers and how the ground lied in placing vs modern IF. And also to give pleasure of old school surprise.

As I have mentioned I thinnk there are at least two different types of beasts now.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 7:57 am 
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I just don't get why a two word parser would be in any way desirable when there are so many multi-word parsers already available today (ie, not just Inform!) The only reason to have one is if it's impossible to have a better parser.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 8:31 am 
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Dannii wrote:
I just don't get why a two word parser would be in any way desirable when there are so many multi-word parsers already available today (ie, not just Inform!) The only reason to have one is if it's impossible to have a better parser.


Retro gaming desire perhaps?

How about:

"I just don't get why Pacman, Space Invaders or Q-Bert would be in any way desirable to play when there are so many 3D games available today (ie, not just Call of Duty!) The only reason to play one is if it's impossible to play a better game."


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 8:36 am 
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Okay, but then why would the parser of all things provoke feelings of nostalgia? Having retro IF with terse descriptions, mazes, instant death etc is all great, but why have a crappy parser too? Does it really make it fun?


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 8:40 am 
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Dannii wrote:
Okay, but then why would the parser of all things provoke feelings of nostalgia? Having retro IF with terse descriptions, mazes, instant death etc is all great, but why have a crappy parser too? Does it really make it fun?


I think its the two word parser which makes it retro, and therefore makes it fun.

Maybe its just me. I have been known to get joy out of things other people can't figure and they look at me in a strange way. I am the same with old cars that way. People say why run an old car with its problems when you can get a newer one?

(BTW my old car runs fine.... )


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 1:58 pm 
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Dannii wrote:
Okay, but then why would the parser of all things provoke feelings of nostalgia? Having retro IF with terse descriptions, mazes, instant death etc is all great, but why have a crappy parser too? Does it really make it fun?


Constraining input to a maximum of two words can help tighten up the open-ended nature of the command prompt. The player knows that all solutions can be expressed in commands of a certain length, and any potential solution that exceeds that length must be pared down or discarded.

I thought it worked surprisingly well in Leadlight. The only parser-related complaint I had with it was the lack of "x" as a synonym for "examine" - forgivable, but only just. Arguably the game experience would have been worse with a better parser, because the slow screen refreshes and the bland default responses tended to punish unrecognized or unimplemented input.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 2:22 pm 
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bcressey wrote:
Constraining input to a maximum of two words can help tighten up the open-ended nature of the command prompt. The player knows that all solutions can be expressed in commands of a certain length, and any potential solution that exceeds that length must be pared down or discarded.

^^^ wot he said!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D

bcressey wrote:
The only parser-related complaint I had with it was the lack of "x" as a synonym for "examine"


... this was the case also in my adventure ... but 'X' will be in my future Adventures because I guess it would relieve the stress of modern day IF players 'going retro' from normally playing games which support X (I guess as well a I, N, S, E, W, U, D, L etc).


Last edited by therealeasterbunny on Thu Nov 18, 2010 2:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 2:41 pm 
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bcressey wrote:
Dannii wrote:
Okay, but then why would the parser of all things provoke feelings of nostalgia? Having retro IF with terse descriptions, mazes, instant death etc is all great, but why have a crappy parser too? Does it really make it fun?


Constraining input to a maximum of two words can help tighten up the open-ended nature of the command prompt. The player knows that all solutions can be expressed in commands of a certain length, and any potential solution that exceeds that length must be pared down or discarded.

I thought it worked surprisingly well in Leadlight. The only parser-related complaint I had with it was the lack of "x" as a synonym for "examine" - forgivable, but only just. Arguably the game experience would have been worse with a better parser, because the slow screen refreshes and the bland default responses tended to punish unrecognized or unimplemented input.


I think a crappy parser is one that is internally inconsistent. If a parser is limited, well, that can be a help sometimes, as long as it is defined what the limits are to avoid guess-the-verb. And if you want to play a very long game, a limited parser will probably be lousy because verbs and puzzles and commands will probably get recycled, and people will groan "I'm not typing that again." For competition style entries...not so much.

Re: guess the verb, I think Leadlight eliminates guess-the-verb well. It helped me in my testing to have a list of verbs printed out and to check them off when trying specific actions. There are some deathtraps which use questionable English by necessity, though, so people playing to find them may have to use process of elimination. Memory constraints, etc.

I found "EX APPLE" but I started using it early in testing and probably eventually took it for granted that other people would find it too. "They're more experienced playing these things...I'm sure they'll figure at least as quickly." Ouch.


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