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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 12:45 pm 
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Quote:
If you were certain of the answer, what did you ask the question for?


Like most everyone else, I have a set of assumptions, and I act on those assumptions. According to my assumptions I would have thought the IFDB page would have the information I thought was useful. I was surprised to find that it didn't.

Rather than go ahead and add the information - which would mean disregarding the opinion of pretty much everyone else and giving priority to my assumptions alone - I stopped to think about the reason for the lack of that information. I therefore asked. Maybe no one actually knew. Maybe no one thought it was important. Maybe it's just not policy to differentiate.

You did not see any reason for the information to be specified. Along the lines of the useful argument and exchange of ideas I thought we were having, I provided the arguments that seemed most sensible to me.

I was not expecting an answer of this sort, I admit.

RE trigger warnings, it seems I did not completly understand what they were. Thank you for the detailed information.

EDIT - It *is* ok to ask questions when you're certain of the answer, BTW. For one thing, maybe you'll find out you weren't right. For another, maybe you'll engage the other person in useful discussion. Everyone does it all the time, and hardly ever with ill intent. Your admonishment seems very strange to me. I've had amazing discussions that started with someone asking a question they were certain of the answer to, and being answered in a completely unexpected way.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 1:05 pm 
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Okay, I see your perspective better now. Here's a better explanation of my perspective.

Either:
1) The information should be added, because games should have accurate descriptions in the IFDB.

Or:
2) The information shouldn't be added, because there's no need to detail the exact nature of sexual content in the IFDB.

I lean toward the latter. I'm okay with the former. I don't have much of a horse in this race. (I haven't played this game, and don't play AIF in general.)

I think it's important for value judgments to be presented in reviews, rather than the main game information. I responded to your post because including a content warning about yiffing feels like a value judgment to me.

But I may have read too much into your question, and if so, I apologize.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2015 1:14 pm 
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Quote:
But I may have read too much into your question, and if so, I apologize.


Apology not necessary, I think you had flashbacks of some earlier posts of mine soon after the CoC was established and you had some misgivings. It's ok. :) Thanks for your response.

Yes, a content warning would probably be overkill, I see your point. On the other hand it's not just to ward off people - some people would prefer, and actively seek, all those sub-cathegories I mentioned - including, yes, yiffy, which is all the more curious because - fursuits aside - it is exclusively about fictional creatures on fictional worlds, and as such, an actual game revolving around it would be of great interest to those who'd care.

Maybe tag the game? And other games involving other unusual erotica, like the optional rape/forced sex and coprophilia in One Girl? Hmm, but if I add those tags it will probably put some people off, just as you say...

Well, actually, in the end a review is definitely the best way, I agree. If I can't be arsed to write one myself I should stop complaining. ;)

EDIT - It just dawned on me. It's not a "value judgement", is a statement of fact.

EDIT 2 - It just dawned on me. I'm spending too much time dwelling on this.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 10:01 am 
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Peter Piers wrote:
This feels very different from the actual Top 50 that Victor usually organises...
Actually, the difference between this list and the Top 50 is not that big. The median deviation of rank position when comparing all works in the latest Top 50 with this list is 10.5. As a comparison, the median deviation between the 2011 and 2015 version of the Top 50 is 9.5. Any overlap of position interval is in this example counted as zero deviation.
Peter Piers wrote:
Of course, there are some oddities - "List and Lists" over "For a Change" is... curious. But hey.
Lists and Lists has an average rating of 4.2 on IFDB, while For a Change has 3.9. The latter does however have more ratings and would be ranked higher if I had set m to at least 11.
Peter Piers wrote:
(funny how Edifice failed to make the cut)
The Edifice got ranked 122, with a weighted rating of 3.79.
Peter Piers wrote:
(so sad Aisle didn't make it to this rating. Ah well).
Aisle got ranked 115, with a weighted rating of 3.80.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 10:13 am 
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I'd say that the biggest difference between the Top 50 I organise and this Top 100 based on IFDB ratings is that the former counts positive votes and the latter counts positive and negative votes. A game like The Baron, which some people really like and some people really don't see the point of, does well in the former but badly in the latter. A game about which everyone is positive but which nobody believes to be fantastic has a much better chance of getting into the latter than it has of getting into the former.

Mostly, this means that the two lists are nice complements to each other. The Top 50 gives you games that some people really recommend; the Top 100 gives you games that you can hardly go wrong with. (That's actually how I generally see IMDB ratings. A high IMDB rating means that the movie can't be bad, though it might not be my cup of tea. But I generally get more excited by a recommendation by someone whose sense of taste I trust.)

There's also a bit of a social component, of course. A game with a niche audience might have a high rating on the IFDB, since only people from the niche rate it, but might not appear in the Top 50, since the niche might not participate on this forum. That could be the Flexible Survival story.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 12:19 pm 
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Beyond Zork and Zork Zero are the only Zorks represented, somewhat surprisingly to me. No Losing Your Grip or Change in the Weather. Agree with Victor that more polarizing games are less likely to be reflected in the IFDB ratings, which makes it surprising that The Gostak shows up at #29 (with 41 votes), as that game appears to have the highest standard deviation in the history of the IFComp (the comp page doesn't have those stats for 1995-1998, but it's not obvious what entry from those years would have been more polarizing).


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 3:15 pm 
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Duncan Stevens wrote:
Beyond Zork and Zork Zero are the only Zorks represented, somewhat surprisingly to me. No Losing Your Grip or Change in the Weather. Agree with Victor that more polarizing games are less likely to be reflected in the IFDB ratings, which makes it surprising that The Gostak shows up at #29 (with 41 votes), as that game appears to have the highest standard deviation in the history of the IFComp (the comp page doesn't have those stats for 1995-1998, but it's not obvious what entry from those years would have been more polarizing).

But people who play it nowadays do so because they heard about it and are interested. Outside of a competition, it's not something you play for longer than two minutes unless you're keen on the precise experience it delivers. :-)


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 4:45 am 
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The presence of Zork Zero is truly weird, since in discussion I get the impression I am the only person in the entire world who liked Zork Zero.

Yes, even the peg puzzle. Don't judge me.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 5:16 am 
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I'm totally judging you on the peg puzzle, the tower of hanoi and the fox feed and fowl puzzles.

But I also loved it, so don't feel lonely.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 9:31 am 
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jbdyer wrote:
The presence of Zork Zero is truly weird, since in discussion I get the impression I am the only person in the entire world who liked Zork Zero.

Yes, even the peg puzzle. Don't judge me.

I really loved Beyond Zork with its light RPG mechanics and randomness.

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