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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 12:49 am 
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I remember Pytho's Mask dropping you right into the conversation at the beginning, but when I went back to check, you actually start will full freedom and you can have the obvious conversation whenever you want.

I've noticed that in IF you can play with time a lot. A critical moment that would take only seconds in real life can be extended for quite a few turns without feeling awkward. It's possible to create a sense of urgency with every-turn messages even if they don't actually result in any actual harm to the PC. Of course some savvy players may type "z" repeatedly just to see if anything will happen, but I consider that an intentional breaking of mimesis.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 12:57 am 
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Another good counterpoint is Heroine's Mantle, which has a lot of heavy action scenes that are intended to work as a fast-paced superhero/spy plot, but makes most of them critical (and often quite difficult) puzzles.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 1:31 am 
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capmikee wrote:
It's possible to create a sense of urgency with every-turn messages even if they don't actually result in any actual harm to the PC. Of course some savvy players may type "z" repeatedly just to see if anything will happen, but I consider that an intentional breaking of mimesis.

In that case, I'd be tempted to have "z" secretly be the only thing that can bring about the harm threatened. 8-)


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 2:08 am 
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If you start with a multiple-choice question, you can make it very clear what to do right away; starting in the middle of the action is no hinderance. All of our games at Choice of Games start in the middle of action. (Our games are nothing but multiple-choice questions, but there's no reason you couldn't ask a few multiple-choice questions and then move on to a parser game.)


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 7:43 am 
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dfabulich wrote:
There's no reason you couldn't ask a few multiple-choice questions and then move on to a parser game.

This is essentially what happens in Calm: the game starts with a little bit of drama and a quick multiple choice conversation, this way the player has an ease in to the dangers of the game-world before the full game starts at a slower pace with a flashback. I'm not sure whether it was the best choice, but framing the game as a story told from a known future gives the player a clear idea of where they're eventually going to end up.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 9:31 am 
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Morley wrote:
capmikee wrote:
It's possible to create a sense of urgency with every-turn messages even if they don't actually result in any actual harm to the PC. Of course some savvy players may type "z" repeatedly just to see if anything will happen, but I consider that an intentional breaking of mimesis.

In that case, I'd be tempted to have "z" secretly be the only thing that can bring about the harm threatened. 8-)


Well, it's better to "z" some turns and to find out whether there really is a limit or there isn't, and what sort of limit it is, than to spend lots of turns pursuing some action or other which will lead me to an endgame past UNDO. Whenever I think there's a limit, I ALWAYS "z" to see if it's real. I've had too many rugs pulled from under my feet, thank you very much.

Incidently, it doesn't stop immersion any more than save/restore/undo. Not for me.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 2:24 pm 
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I'd like to mention one of my favourite beginnings too: Augmented Fourth. It starts with a sort-of action sequence with limited options for the player. It also suggests possible things to try.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 5:34 pm 
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maga wrote:
matt w wrote:
Mentual Macanus: Apocolowhateverthehell starts in the middle of an action scene and then flashes back. It cues what you have to do pretty well (I mean, I died a few times before I got it right, but that's because I'm bad at this).

Note: Mentula Macanus is not for the weak of stomach. And I mean 'stomach' in Victorian sense.


Agreed. It's porn, and the people that think it's funny to offend others using porn, I pity. They know not what they do.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 12:45 am 
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I was thinking the same thing for a game project.

I guess you should make sure the story and the action are the main thing, and propose the player only 1(continue...) or 2 choices at each step to keep the fast paced action running.
The player should know clearly what he can and can't do and should not have a lot of choices. Since you intend to use it as an introduction it may be a very good one.
I would ask at each turn "do you do X or Y?" and watch the input for these answers only.

Morley wrote:
So for the game I'm sort of halfway planning, I had the idea of starting the game, against IF tradition, in the middle of an action-oriented sequence. I'm not entirely sure it's a good idea, though.

I know if this were a piece of static fiction, I'd consider it the strongest opening. I'm relatively sure I can set the thing up so there's no problem with it being too hard to understand what's going on. My concern is that in IF, players typically want to spend their first few turns poking around, testing the depth of the implimentation, XYZZYing, etc, before commiting to the story.

I'm wondering: are there any games you've played that effectively begin in the middle of a relatively suspenseful or fast-paced sequence? A timed sequence? A conversation? In general, do you as a player tend to reserve those first few turns for getting your bearings and/or messing around in an unmimetic fashion? Are there cases where a particularly compelling opening sequence has caused you to want to act in character right away?


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2011 6:11 pm 
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Peter Pears wrote:
Morley wrote:
capmikee wrote:
It's possible to create a sense of urgency with every-turn messages even if they don't actually result in any actual harm to the PC. Of course some savvy players may type "z" repeatedly just to see if anything will happen, but I consider that an intentional breaking of mimesis.

In that case, I'd be tempted to have "z" secretly be the only thing that can bring about the harm threatened. 8-)


Well, it's better to "z" some turns and to find out whether there really is a limit or there isn't, and what sort of limit it is, than to spend lots of turns pursuing some action or other which will lead me to an endgame past UNDO. Whenever I think there's a limit, I ALWAYS "z" to see if it's real. I've had too many rugs pulled from under my feet, thank you very much.

Incidently, it doesn't stop immersion any more than save/restore/undo. Not for me.


So, do you start using the wait-and-restore technique as soon as you see signs that you're probably being timed, or only after you've been forced to restore once and know it's a timed sequence?

For me this is where it moves into tricky area. I sort of feel that if PC is in a situation that logically would be time-sensitive and the game strongly hints that you should play as though there were a time limit, then the player has no business messing around trying to figure out if it's a real limit before even attempting the sequence. There may be situations I'm not imagining where that makes more sense, but presumably they'd all be rated "cruel".


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