intfiction.org

The Interactive Fiction Community Forum
It is currently Fri Apr 28, 2017 10:38 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 33 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2016 7:22 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 4:56 pm
Posts: 5316
Every year I update this graph of how many IFComp entries there are and how many are parser-based vs choice-based.

http://eblong.com/zarf/pic/tally-ifcomp.png

Why? Obviously this is a silly, pettifogging way to view IFComp. On the other hand graphs are nice. And if somebody says "parser IF is dying!" it's fun to be able to point at a chart and say "Yes, the trend indicates that parser IF will be gone by the year 2028! Enjoy the next twelve years of parser games, you fossilizing relic!"

Which is what I would have said last year. But for the past few years, the parser count has been creeping up again. Even the smoothed (dotted) curve has stopped decreasing.

Now, I said this was a silly and reductive view. One way it is silly is that the definition of "parser" just isn't that obvious any more. This year there are two games written using Texture, which does not have a *parser* but does have a noun-verb selection interface that supports a parser-like world model. The same goes for _Detectiveland_. Then there's _Fallen Leaves_, which could be described as a verb-adverb selection interface. On the flip side, there's _Take_ (parser, but only accepts one verb) and _Mirror and Queen_ (parser, but only accepts single words).

I decided to take a broad view and accept all of these as parser-like. For the splitters, the totals look like this:

18: parser
3: reduced parser
5: parser-like (at least two axes of choice range)
32: choice

So my graph shows 26 parser-like (blue) and 32 choice (green), but if you want to be strict you could call it 21 to 37. (I am confident that reduced-parser games have been counted as "still a parser game" throughout IFComp history.)

(I should note that I have not gone back to earlier years to apply this notion of parser-like-ness. Sorry. Some other time.)


Last edited by zarf on Sun Oct 16, 2016 7:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Sun Oct 16, 2016 7:23 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 4:56 pm
Posts: 5316
My full notes file is pasted below.

Spoiler: show
(C) 16 Ways to Kill a Vampire at McDonalds by Abigail Corfman
(C) 500 Apocalypses by Phantom Williams
(C) Aether Apeiron: The Zephyra Chronicles by Hippodamus & Company
(C) All I Do is Dream by Megan Stevens
(P) Ariadne in Aeaea by Victor Ojuel
(C) Ash by Lee Grey
(? -- Texture) Black Rock City by Jim Munroe
(C) Cactus Blue Motel by Astrid Dalmady
(C) Cinnamon Tea by Daffs O'Dill
(P) Color the Truth by mathbrush
(P) Darkiss! Wrath of the Vampire - Chapter 2: Journey to Hell by Marco Vallarino
(? -- button-based parserlike) Detectiveland by Robin Johnson
(P) Eight characters, a number, and a happy ending by K.G. Orphanides
(C) Evermore by Adam Whybray and Edgar Allan Poe
(P) Fair by Hanon Ondricek
(? -- action-adverb?) Fallen 落葉 Leaves by Adam Bredenberg, Danial Mohammed Khan-Yousufzai
(P) The Game of Worlds TOURNAMENT! by Ade
(C) The God Device by Andy Joel
(P) Hill Ridge Lost & Found by Jeremy Pflasterer
(P) How to Win at Rock Paper Scissors by Brian Kwak
(P -- reduced) Inside the Facility by Arthur DiBianca
(C) Labyrinth of Loci by anbrewk
(C) Letters by Madison Evans
(C) The Little Lifeform That Could by Fade Manley
(C) Manlandia by Rob Chateau
(P -- single-word) Mirror and Queen by Chandler Groover
(C) Moonland by BillyJaden
(C) The Mouse by Norbez
(P) Night House by Bitter Karella
(C) Not Another Hero by Cecilia Rosewood
(P) Pogoman GO! by Jack Welch and Ben Collins-Sussman
(? -- Texture) The Queen's Menagerie by Chandler Groover
(C) Quest for the Traitor Saint by Owlor
(C) Riot by Taylor Johnson
(C) Rite of Passage by Arno von Borries
(C) SCREW YOU, BEAR DAD! by Xalavier Nelson Jr.
(C) The Shoe Dept. by Aquanet
(P) Sigil Reader (Field) by verityvirtue
(? -- roguelike) The Skull Embroidery by Jeron Paraiso
(C) The Skyscraper and the Scar by Diego Freire, Ruber Eaglenest
(P) Slicker City by Andrew Schultz
(C) Snake's Game by Nahian Nasir
(P) Steam and Sacrilege by Phil McGrail
(C) Stone Harbor by Liza Daly
(C) Stuff and Nonsense by Felicity Banks
(P -- reduced) Take by Amelia Pinnolla
(C) Take Over the World by Marie L. Vibbert
(C) Tentaculon by Ned Vole
(C) Thaxted Havershill And the Golden Wombat by Andrew Brown
(P) Theatre People by Michael Kielstra
(C) This is My Memory of First Heartbreak, Which I Can't Quite Piece Back Together by Story, Art, & UX Design by Jenny Goldstick, Development by Stephen Betts & Owen Roberts
(C) A Time of Tungsten by Devin Raposo
(C) To The Wolves by Els White
(P) Toiletworld by Chet Rocketfrak
(P) Ventilator by Peregrine Wade
(C) Yes, my mother is... by Skarn
(P) You are standing in a cave... by Caroline Berg
(P) Zigamus: Zombies at Vigamus by Marco Vallarino


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2016 9:00 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2014 2:07 pm
Posts: 115
A steady decline, but CYAO Didn't Kill the Parser Star?

_________________
Ariadne in Aeaea (IFComp 2016)
Pilgrimage (IFComp 2015)

Twitter: @victorojuel


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2016 10:54 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 4:56 pm
Posts: 5316
A slow and very noisy decline, you'd have to call it. Anything but "steady".


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2016 10:57 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2014 2:07 pm
Posts: 115
Well, yes.

_________________
Ariadne in Aeaea (IFComp 2016)
Pilgrimage (IFComp 2015)

Twitter: @victorojuel


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 1:11 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2010 1:27 pm
Posts: 1595
zarf wrote:
(I should note that I have not gone back to earlier years to apply this notion of parser-like-ness. Sorry. Some other time.)


Because of the huge scope, that would be an interesting group project--one person per year, maybe, and it would get done quickly. And given your work on Lectrote, yeah, I think we'd rather have you doing that, and those of us who'd like to do more in the community can maybe pitch in, here.

Also for looking back there's potential for a "might've been better as CYoA" but unfortunately that gets subjective, and I like your objective criteria.

It'd be easier for long time community members to look at the earlier years, but I would be willing to pick a recent year if we have enough people to make it through them all.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:12 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2012 1:13 am
Posts: 11
This graph is stunning in its starkness. Perhaps a picture is worth a thousand words, for it puts so clearly before us what I find hard to say... which is, that I am so disheartened by this rolling tide of Twine and find it hard to believe that these are being compared side by side with ordinary parser games.

Not to say that some choice games are not fun, or innovative, or beautiful in their own way. It's just that they are taking over. And there is a greater tendency toward amateurish efforts, which makes it more difficult to discern what merits ones time.

Is it a safe to predict that one year in the very near future, these choice games will eclipse parser games entirely? Will there one day be separate competitions? Time will tell! I wish at least that one could see them in separate lists when browsing games in the competition, or the IFDB.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2016 11:34 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 4:56 pm
Posts: 5316
Quote:
Is it a safe to predict that one year in the very near future, these choice games will eclipse parser games entirely?


Poetic, but no.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Thu Nov 03, 2016 12:29 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2011 8:11 am
Posts: 1794
Location: US - Central
Every year there is the requisite thread: "Parser is dead!" "Parser is dying!"

The thing is the natural turnaround time on Twine is much shorter than that of a parser game. Someone skilled in Twine can probably knock out a moderate length piece in a week. A beginner could probably make something competent in 2-3 weeks. The testing requirements can be low to nonexistent for a straightforward choice narrative. Parser takes longer to build and often weeks of testing. Skilled Twine authors could probably make 3-4 short to moderate works in the time it takes to make and test one parser piece.

I am in no way intending to denigrate the utility and ease of Twine. There's nothing wrong with any app that gets out of the way of the creator and lets them put out a story without needing to grok parsing and rules and building an entire world out of objects. Twine is popular due to its lower barrier to entry to make something good. Therefore more people will make more entries in Twine in any competition that permits both.

_________________
http://hanonondricek.wix.com/pyramidif


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2016 5:13 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 15, 2010 8:52 am
Posts: 1360
For people who love parser, there is a parser-specific event (ParserComp) which existed in 2014/2015 and will exist again in 2016/2017. (Stay tuned!)

_________________
Carolyn VanEseltine
* Supporting IF authors, players, and communities through technology at IFTF
* Games and game dev writing at Sibyl Moon Games


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 33 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group