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 Post subject: Re: TADS 3.1.4 Release?
PostPosted: Tue May 29, 2018 7:29 am 
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Location: Burlington, VT
I somehow completely messed up the link to the new thread about dynamic parsers. Here's the thread.


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 Post subject: Re: TADS 3.1.4 Release?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 12:48 pm 
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Posts: 134
I couldn't help but throw in two cents for next release. I'm not sure if this is possible or not, but customization of the exe game window would be really cool. It wouldn't have to be super big until later if desired to go bigger with customization.

- Allow us to remove menu or sub menu items: Remove add/delete themes, remove themes, remove edit themes.
- Allow us to force start in a theme.
- Allow us to change the color and screen color of console theme programmatically
- Override save system and call it with a function.

If these are already features please let me know. But the idea is if we can release Tads 3 games professionally maybe a bit more professional customization would be suitable for a pristine system. I think if we could personalize the console feel Tads 3 would literally be the best.

One annoying thing. There are like 5 parser commands that return information but none of them return the full command that was last typed by the player. This is extremely obvious as to why it would be useful, and extremely not-understandable why it's not right there.


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 Post subject: Re: TADS 3.1.4 Release?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 4:17 pm 
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Did you consider making webui version of the game? I know it is not the same as a standalone exe file, but when it comes to customization, you have almost unlimited possibilities.


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 Post subject: Re: TADS 3.1.4 Release?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 4:24 pm 
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No, just windows for now. Although I can see how it would be good for styling. I just found blasphemy in the documentation:

"In the traditional UI, the user installs a TADS interpreter on her machine,"

Now we're all 'hers' lol.

http://www.tads.org/t3doc/doc/sysman/webui.htm


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 Post subject: Re: TADS 3.1.4 Release?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 5:32 pm 
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Putting on my mod hat, if it's not "blasphemy" when someone chooses to use "him" to refer to a person of unknown gender (since it makes us all into "hims"), then it isn't blasphemy when someone chooses to use "her" to refer to a person of unknown gender.


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 Post subject: Re: TADS 3.1.4 Release?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 6:05 pm 
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matt w wrote:
Putting on my mod hat, if it's not "blasphemy" when someone chooses to use "him" to refer to a person of unknown gender (since it makes us all into "hims"), then it isn't blasphemy when someone chooses to use "her" to refer to a person of unknown gender.


When I write documenation, I prefer to use epicene pronouns throughout: they/them/their/theirs/themselves. Check out this handy chart to avoid "pronoun trouble"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_personal_pronouns#Basic

For more information on pronoun trouble see the Looney Tunes cartoon, _Rabbit_Seasoning_.

And, yes, gender neutral pronouns are important. If you are male, you may not realize what a drag it is to read a comp sci or math textbook (or other books on stereotypically male interests.) where all the examples are "he." It just makes half the population feel excluded, which is not enjoyable. I don't see that "she" is a much better option, but I do at least appreciate that the author is trying to level the playing field a bit.

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Last edited by bikibird on Mon Sep 10, 2018 12:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: TADS 3.1.4 Release?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 12:02 pm 
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matt w wrote:
Putting on my mod hat, if it's not "blasphemy" when someone chooses to use "him" to refer to a person of unknown gender (since it makes us all into "hims"), then it isn't blasphemy when someone chooses to use "her" to refer to a person of unknown gender.


I think most the world is used to seeing 'he' including woman. I have nothing against woman, but I'm used to reading bible. It would never use 'she' for 'he' on purpose. For thousand and thousands of years it's been mankind. That's a lot of conditioning to compete with. I know that's getting opinionated but bare with me on the general consensus thing, which in the end effects popularity. Documentation is not scripture and we don't all believe, that's fine. But I would say like the last poster said gender neutral is the norm for documentation. I would say 90% of men do not want to see 'her' in place of the user so therefore don't do it. You can, it might not be a mistake, but prepare to get groans from 90% of your male readers. If you don't want to put them off, or the woman, use gender neutral for smooth sailing.


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 Post subject: Re: TADS 3.1.4 Release?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 12:48 pm 
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Quote:
For thousand and thousands of years it's been mankind.


If you're going to make etymological arguments based on the Bible, please cite the Aramaic. :/

EDIT-ADD: Also, move to off-topic.


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 Post subject: Re: TADS 3.1.4 Release?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 12:58 pm 
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JeremyBenson wrote:
I think most the world is used to seeing 'he' including woman. I have nothing against woman, but I'm used to reading bible. It would never use 'she' for 'he' on purpose. For thousand and thousands of years it's been mankind. That's a lot of conditioning to compete with.


Doubtful, as "mankind" is an English word, and English hasn't been around for 1000's of years. Don't know what the orginal Hebrew or Greek would have been or if those languages have the equivalent of a singular they.

Actually, the history of the singular they form is quite old and using he for singular they, is comparatively more recent. I found this article on the topic fascinating: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Singular_they#Usage

They (not he :) ) even give some examples as early as the 1300's.

So, good news, we only have to overcome our grade school education and perhaps a few centuries. We can do it. Every generation recreates the world anew. I, too, was taught that a sentence like, "A good person does not eat his dessert before his vegetables," was more correct than, "A good person does not eat their dessert before their vegetables."* I used to think that people who used "they" and "their" in the singular sounded ignorant because I had been taught better. I don't believe that anymore. In the 90's I used to write out "he/she" and "his/her," which was always awkward. I was so happy to discover the acceptability of singular they.

Lest anyone think this veering too far off topic, every good piece of IF needs good writing and the more inclusive your writing style is the larger your audience will be.

I will get off the soapbox now. Thanks for listening.

*I eat dessert whenever I feel like it. Try not to judge.

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 Post subject: Re: TADS 3.1.4 Release?
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2018 1:40 pm 
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The terminology for mankind was men or man in Greek scriptures.

anthrōpos: manfaced, that is, a human being: - certain, man.

It's just like saying mankind, because it roots from ándras which is man. Men is ándres. The word 'mankind' may be under 1,000 years old but the terminology of mankind is not limited to English. Like I said, the issue stems from 1000's of years of conditioning where the world was referred to as mankind. Woman were only mentioned in text when they were being talking about specifically, but that didn't mean they weren't respected.

Another reason why it is aggravating to most of us is because we subject ourselves as that user. Even it it's talking about a user that will play our game. Unless we have been prepped that this is a story with a female or male character. Strange, but it's common human nature. Plus we have related tangents, like "Why does it have to be a girl that's playing my game?" But words can go where they please, I digress :P


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