intfiction.org

The Interactive Fiction Community Forum
It is currently Tue Feb 19, 2019 9:38 pm

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 35 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 6:03 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Nov 12, 2014 5:20 pm
Posts: 222
Quote:
But Frotz lets you do that with the Page Down and Page Up keys.
So how do you do that on a keyboard without Page Up and Page Down keys? My Macbook keyboard doesn't have those. In some apps you can use Alt + arrow or Ctrl + arrow instead, but not in Gargoyle.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 1:22 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 4:56 pm
Posts: 5919
All Macbook keyboards support fn-up/down for Page Up/Down. Gargoyle is good with it.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 1:43 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2010 12:29 pm
Posts: 137
Location: Utah
By default, Gargoyle uses Bocfel for Z5 games rather than Frotz. In Bocfel, Page Up appears to do a full page of scrollback, but Frotz doesn't have that function.
So I assume those keystrokes would work to scroll the description window when running Beyond Zork in Frotz on a Macbook, but not in Gargoyle.

_________________
Nathan Simpson - The other Infocom bugs list


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 1:52 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2010 12:29 pm
Posts: 137
Location: Utah
I know Zoom is popular on macOS, so I gave it a try too (I only use Linux).
The arrow keys do the Infocom thing rather than the Frotz thing, but at least on my system the Beyond Zork map is hopelessly garbled.

_________________
Nathan Simpson - The other Infocom bugs list


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 3:06 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2018 2:13 pm
Posts: 14
Location: San Jose, California, USA
zarf wrote:
Didn't help. I'll try a different daily build sometime in the future.


Ah, it seems that this is a different problem being experienced in the last week. See this forum thread. No resolution seems to have been found yet, though.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Wed Dec 26, 2018 4:08 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2018 2:13 pm
Posts: 14
Location: San Jose, California, USA
Nathan wrote:
Nowadays of course the convention is to scroll through command history with the up and down arrows, but Infocom interpreters never did such a thing. The up and down arrows in Infocom's Beyond Zork interpreters did just what the prompt indicates, paged the description window. But Frotz lets you do that with the Page Down and Page Up keys.


Thanks. I now see where I had trouble recognizing it. At first i tried your suggestion with the Windows Frotz pre-built executable, and it didn't work, nor did the source code for it have any reference to special handling for the key. The Gargoyle source code also didn't, though it in any case co-opts the PageUp/PageDn keys for scrolling through the text buffer history. It was only when I went to the latest source at DavidGriffith/frotz.git that I now see that os_read_line has special handling for the key.

So it should hopefully be straightforward to retrofit the changes back, and suppress the buffer scrolling logic to allow the description scrolling to occur when appropriate. Maybe even intercept the specific text for the paging description and replace the arrow key with 'PgDn' for clarity.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2018 3:45 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2012 7:00 pm
Posts: 401
dreammaster wrote:
I don't see why not. I'd just need to find a reputable source for them if they're free. Or, if not, for someone to give me a list of the games' filesizes and md5 of the first 5000 bytes.


"Reputable source" and "free" can mean a number of things 8) "R (Pron: Arrr...)" at least was circulated freely as an IFcomp entry, and you can find its data file at https://ifdb.tads.org/viewgame?id=rq7505rd58zsd82x ... for free ones I'll probably have better luck looking at the more recent items on the list... I see you already have Desert Adventure supported and Roger Firth's Cloak of Darkness page hosted a link to a SAGA version of the exercise at http://www.samiam.org/moof/cloak-scott-0.1.zip

The Other-Ventures were sold through Adventure International (apparently Jyym also sold a few that were too outre through Med Systems / Screenplay), Asgard Software sold a pile of them for the TI-99/4A Adventure Module, Adventuresoft in the UK sold a few...

If you like I can probably find you links for the other Scott Adams-format games -- while they were commercially sold and have not been relinquished into the public domain, you say "the autodetection only currently recognizes the freely available games" and they are about as freely available as the ones you currently support. 8)


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2018 6:29 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2018 2:13 pm
Posts: 14
Location: San Jose, California, USA
UnwashedMass wrote:
"Reputable source" and "free" can mean a number of things 8)


We're pedantic about not supporting any abandonware or similar websites that provide downloads without authorization. Which is why the current set of detected games comprises everything only from the if-archive and Scott Adams own website. But for other free ones that are available, they'll be easy to add in. Commercial ones, I can't accept links to them unless the company themselves says they're free. But in any case, as I said previously, if anyone actually has them and is willing to devote a few minutes of work, they can generate the md5s of the first 5000 bytes and provide them and the filesizes. I don't physically need the games themselves to add them in as detection entries.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Dec 27, 2018 8:30 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2012 7:00 pm
Posts: 401
dreammaster wrote:
We're pedantic about not supporting any abandonware or similar websites that provide downloads without authorization. Which is why the current set of detected games comprises everything only from the if-archive and Scott Adams own website.


I hear you, I know many times in the past I have seen SCUMMVM devs announce that they were waiting for game media to arrive in order to implement support.

I wasn't surprised to see that Scott Adams was giving his old games away, but I didn't necessarily expect that Brian Howarth would have followed suit with his Digital Fantasia games. (And huh, I suspect he does have other Scott Adams format games, such as Gremlins, that aren't included there.) Do we have it on good understanding that PDD got his authorization before posting the conversions to the IF Archive or is it just considered to have lapsed into public domain status after having sat there unchallenged for so long? (Same deal with the otheradv titles -- I wonder how an unknown author could have given authorization for "James Bond Adventure", using intellectual property they surely weren't allowed to use, without revealing their identity 8)

But I digress. I will put a bug in the ear of a few collectors I know to generate some md5s for you.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 1:03 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu Oct 28, 2010 12:29 pm
Posts: 137
Location: Utah
Just in case anyone still cares about the issue of scrolling the description window in Beyond Zork, it turns out that if the storyfile thinks it's running on a Macintosh, it gives you the option of scrolling using the slash and backslash keys as well as the arrows.

_________________
Nathan Simpson - The other Infocom bugs list


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 35 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 7 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group