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 Post subject: Re: Forgiveness
PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2016 7:57 pm 
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Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2014 7:56 pm
Posts: 1668
Really? Thank goodness!

Also, is my face red! (yes it is!) :D

Also, funny thing - nowadays it's very easy to mistake satire/parody for the real thing on the internet. Scary!


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 Post subject: Re: Forgiveness
PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2016 8:12 pm 
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The mention of Mario has gotten me thinking about Kaizo Mario, and how it is enjoyed by a rather small audience of skilled players.

I think games can get away with extreme difficulty and nasty traps when they are targeted to a niche of hardcore players, as long as the intended audience finds it fun and feels like the challenge is not beyond their skills.

Forgiveness means you might bore hardcore players wanting to be challenged but that you will appeal to new and more casual players.

I realise this is all hopelessly obvious so perhaps I am not really contributing much with this comment.


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 Post subject: Re: Forgiveness
PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2016 8:24 pm 
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Stating the obvious is underrated. It's good to go back to the basic premises once in a while or the flights of fancy get too fanciful. :)

Anyway, it wasn't so much "obvious" as "help define the term we're kicking around", and that's always useful.


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 Post subject: Re: Forgiveness
PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2016 8:26 pm 
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turnip wrote:
Forgiveness means you might bore hardcore players wanting to be challenged but that you will appeal to new and more casual players.

I've noticed a recent trend of IF games offering a hard mode, which I find to be a good compromise. Players who are looking for a challenge can play on hard mode, while players who are more interested in other aspects of the game can play on easy mode.

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 Post subject: Re: Forgiveness
PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 9:05 am 
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turnip wrote:
I think you'll find the article (and the others on that site) are intended to be satire and are fictional.


...I'm usually so good at spotting these. Now I feel silly.

I've heard the phrase "Mario hard" thrown around routinely as a way to describe games that don't fit with modern audiences (in my day job - I'm a professional game dev). I went googling fast for an example and didn't look properly at the article I was bringing up. Serves me right.

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 Post subject: Re: Forgiveness
PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 11:57 am 
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Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2010 2:34 pm
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Location: Burlington, VT
cvaneseltine wrote:
turnip wrote:
I think you'll find the article (and the others on that site) are intended to be satire and are fictional.


...I'm usually so good at spotting these. Now I feel silly.

I've heard the phrase "Mario hard" thrown around routinely as a way to describe games that don't fit with modern audiences (in my day job - I'm a professional game dev). I went googling fast for an example and didn't look properly at the article I was bringing up. Serves me right.


There's the Nintendo Hard TVTropes page. See you all next week!

My amateurish sense is that part of the reason for the difficulty level of videogames (as opposed to text adventures) from around this time is the heavy influence of arcade games, which had to kill you off a lot to keep the quarters flowing.


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 Post subject: Re: Forgiveness
PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2016 8:14 pm 
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matt w wrote:
My amateurish sense is that part of the reason for the difficulty level of videogames (as opposed to text adventures) from around this time is the heavy influence of arcade games, which had to kill you off a lot to keep the quarters flowing.


Heh, by their relative economic models, the two types of game probably worked the same in the long term.

To play Wizard and the Princess, you put in what an American would say was somewhere between 120 and 240 quarters. Then you'd move two rooms, pick up a rock in the desert, get chomped by a rattle snake and die. But you'd have one or two hundred credits left to spend over the next year.

-Wade


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 Post subject: Re: Forgiveness
PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2016 11:45 am 
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Location: Utah
severedhand wrote:
We were entertained, delighted, loved making breakthroughs that came months apart, and when we were away from the games, we had time to think about them before coming back and trying a few more things later. We'd be elated at each breakthrough we made.


This was very much my experience as well. I know the community has moved on, but this is what I still want from IF today.

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 Post subject: Re: Forgiveness
PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2016 12:21 pm 
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Posts: 242
A game that you cannot lose is not a game but is an exercise in futility.
(quotation from I don't know)

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Last edited by zzo38 on Thu Dec 22, 2016 2:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Forgiveness
PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2016 6:10 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2016 7:26 pm
Posts: 24
I was watching speedrunner CarlSagan42 play puzzle levels in Mario Maker and he had this to say on puzzles:

Quote:
I actually was never a big fan of puzzles for a long time, but I've really really come to like puzzles a lot. It's very satisfying when you figure it out. Like I think the thing about puzzles is a lot of people get frustrated while they are doing them, and if you just stop - your experience was just getting frustrated. But yeah, if you go through the frustration and you actually beat the puzzle then it's pretty fun.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hWm1QD2yyY&t=610

It made me think of this thread so I thought I'd share it


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