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 Post subject: Re: Forgiveness
PostPosted: Tue Jul 05, 2016 4:17 am 
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Joined: Tue Aug 12, 2014 7:56 pm
Posts: 1668
The tricky bit is, what if you *don't* beat the puzzle? We've all been there - we've looked at the solution and went, "how the heck was I supposed to know that?". Poor design has played a major part in killing trust, and killing trust is the main reason some of us have a lot less patience with games.

I don't trust Curses! one bit, it's full of walking deads. I trusted The Mulldoon Legacy a lot more, even after I had to capitulate and check the walktrhough on a couple of sticky points (which I totally would NOT have gotten on my own). Mulldoon played like a dream over the course of a few weeks; Curses! was a nightmare.


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 Post subject: Re: Forgiveness
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 10:05 am 
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Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2015 5:48 am
Posts: 85
looking into another, similar, genre of games, I always chuckle when people complaining about the "shortness" of modern WRPGs and JRPGs, because my training as adventurer ;) teaches me to look into every nook and cranny of the map, and having a policy "everything that can be moved from map to inventory WILL be moved" and I enjoy a console RPG for months, ticking 100s of hours without problems.

on IF, I really like having an "x out of Y rooms visited" in the score/fullscore output, whose, as written above, IS really gratifying for me ;)

on the nintendohard/strategy guides debate, I like to put glosses in the latter (and writing those glosses is another gratifying thing), but of course I often get the guides from the discount/bargain bins :lol:

Best regards from Italy,
dott. Piergiorgio.


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 Post subject: Re: Forgiveness
PostPosted: Tue Dec 20, 2016 12:36 pm 
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Completionism is a virtue to some, an OCD nightmare for others!

A lot of old school games were designed when kids got maybe one or two games a year and it had to last. I like the idea of how an RPG is probably one of the easiest type of games to pad out with lots of optional content.

I love RPGs, but find myself as an adult with little time to get the most out of all of them. Fallout 3 took me about three years to get through the main quest, playing off and on. Some people appreciate a linear story of 2-6 hours, but it's bad when a player thinks they're getting one and it's actually the other. If you're in a location with no internet and tons of free time, there's nothing better than combing the map of a Bethesda RPG.

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 Post subject: Re: Forgiveness
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 2:50 am 
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Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 9:21 pm
Posts: 243
Most computer games are too easy. Make the difficult kind. Adding the Kaizo Trap and whatever can be good idea. But, hopefully you can save as many save files as you want, possibly nearly anywhere (depending on the kind of game this may be reduced, but for most text adventure games this is reasonable), so that you can easily to recover. Although, that does not mean that you will necessarily know when you have done something wrong until it is too late (in some cases)! On the cruelty scale, Hell or easier is too easy; therefore the scale must be expanded. You can provide hints if they are needed, and/or player can try to disassemble the code and look, or examine the source code, or whatever; but depending on what it is, even such things can be misleading (even though it is true (and is not even obfuscated)!). Of course there should be description in game, with the in story reason to be truth or lies or whatever, and then the player must figure out, but certainly is possible that strange things can happen too. "The sort of puzzles where you had to reconsider the entire history of what you had already done, as well as your current resources" (as zarf mention) is good idea too please.

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 Post subject: Re: Forgiveness
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 12:31 pm 
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The cruelty scale is not a difficulty scale. We established that to begin with.


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 Post subject: Re: Forgiveness
PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2016 1:17 pm 
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Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 9:21 pm
Posts: 243
zarf wrote:
The cruelty scale is not a difficulty scale. We established that to begin with.
I know that, although there is a kind of relation. Also, forgiveness can make the game easy, regardless of that (although it really is independent). So, yes, not to be confuse but also not to be taken in isolation of everything else; there is many feature in game. The game can be isolated from everything external to the game too.

Also is possibility for cruelty level of game can also be altered together with a user-selectable difficulty level, or with a serpate user-selectable cruelty level (does any game have stuff like this?). Maybe even in some unusual circumstance, something that is obviously to be getting stuck is only the case when graphics are enabled, although it is not so clear from the text. Is also the possibility that whether or not multiple save files possible, and whether or not undo is possible, also is depend on the interpreter in use.

And what of the possibility that revealing the cruelty level might reveal too much about the plot or about the solution? And then, what if mentioning that it is purposely hidden is a clue?

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