intfiction.org

The Interactive Fiction Community Forum
It is currently Mon Nov 19, 2018 1:11 am

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 24 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:43 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2013 9:19 pm
Posts: 32
Hanon, to continue the tangent...

HanonO wrote:
The story is written in named passages. It displays text as if you are reading a novel.

If you're interested in the painting on the wall, you click the word "painting" and either:
-The prose cuts in a more detailed description of the painting.


This is baked into Squiffy and you can insert Javascript to do other stuff.

HanonO wrote:
The story is written in named passages. It displays text as if you are reading a novel.

If you're interested in the painting on the wall, you click the word "painting" and either:
-The prose cuts in a more detailed description of the painting.
...
-Options to act on the painting "take the painting" "examine the painting" appear temporarily and fold away after you make the choice.


There's a system called Toothrot that does this.

As someone whose primary experience of "programming" has been to work on a CYOA with variables and if/then choices for a while now, I've started to realize that all these languages are at bottom about variables and if-then-else and such as that. As such, Javascript seems to be quite a popular jack-of-all-trades at the moment and it seems you can do a lot of different things with that language and similar ones.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 3:44 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Apr 18, 2010 3:58 pm
Posts: 832
loopernow wrote:
all these languages are at bottom about variables and if-then-else and such as that


According to the Church-Turing thesis, all programming languages are like that, not just IF languages, because all computable programs are nothing more than variables and if-then-else. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turing_machine

_________________
At Choice of Games, we sell long-form choice-based interactive fiction games. We're looking for writers, paid in advance.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Mon Dec 18, 2017 10:28 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2013 9:19 pm
Posts: 32
dfabulich wrote:
loopernow wrote:
all these languages are at bottom about variables and if-then-else and such as that


According to the Church-Turing thesis, all programming languages are like that, not just IF languages, because all computable programs are nothing more than variables and if-then-else. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turing_machine


Yeah, that's what I've been starting to realize as I've looked at more programming language examples!

So some uses of programming are about modeling or simulating, right? For instance, most video games and most IF (among other types of programs that also model or simulate). What is it about models or simulacra that is so fascinating? So, not just computer games, but also: real-life doll houses full of doll furniture. Novels. Movies, plays, songs.

There's a movie/music video director named Michel Gondry who overtly creates simulacra in his videos and some of his movies. Their obvious insufficiency compared to reality doesn't matter--it makes the work that much more fascinating. For example, the video for Around the World by Daft Punk has dancers walking in a circle on a platform, repeating a set pattern of dance moves. It's more compelling than it sounds. Or the video for Bachelorette by Bjork, "an exploration of self-reference,"--the narrative in the video is like an endlessly repeating image in a couple of mirrors (that trick)--a story within a story within a story within a story (until it implodes under its own weight). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bachelorette_(song)

One obvious answer is that models help us better understand the world--like the theory of relativity and all these other theories that have yielded electricity, sound recordings, computers...multitudes of modern conveniences...

...I think humans are compelled to model...


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 11:20 am 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jan 23, 2010 4:56 pm
Posts: 5804
Quote:
What is it about models or simulacra that is so fascinating?


Same answer as Scott McCloud talked about for comics: they simplify away some aspects of reality. Thus they allow us to focus on other aspects, while filling in the missing detail in our heads to make a complete picture which fits both our own experience and the experience that the model (or cartoon) is trying to show.

For cartoons, it's about visual portrayal -- a few circles and arcs can turn into a fully-characterized person in your head. For interactive models, it's about behavior. You can look at a cloud of moving dots and see a flock of birds, because that's how they move.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 11:23 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2011 8:11 am
Posts: 2757
Location: US - Central
loopernow wrote:

There's a system called Toothrot that does this.

Node JS...terminal stuff. Compile stuff separately... [Interest wanes.]

If there's not an IDE, I'm probably not interested. I'm picky that way, and yes, it's my loss. I'm high-maintenance, I know. I didn't even get into ChoiceScript until there was a really viable IDE developed by the community.

Oh, and Squiffy is great. I would love to do something with it, but it tends to be like...third runner-up whenever I present the rose to the system I end up using for the next WIP.

_________________
http://hanonondricek.wixsite.com/pyramidif
https://pyramidif.itch.io/


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 6:34 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2013 9:19 pm
Posts: 32
HanonO wrote:
Node JS...terminal stuff. Compile stuff separately... [Interest wanes.]

If there's not an IDE, I'm probably not interested. ... I didn't even get into ChoiceScript until there was a really viable IDE developed by the community.

Oh, and Squiffy is great. I would love to do something with it, but it tends to be like...third runner-up whenever I present the rose to the system I end up using for the next WIP.


I hear ya. But I ended up writing my CYOA in Scrivener because it lessened the pain of no IDE and I preferred it to TWINE's IDE--which I think is kinda useless. I find the map it builds very hard to understand and in general I don't like point-and-click.

Now I'm playing around with writing a CYOA in Dynalist (an outliner) and then I'll use Microsoft Word's sorta-like-regular-expressions find-and-replace to turn it into a Squiffy-compatible file.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 6:35 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2013 9:19 pm
Posts: 32
zarf wrote:
Quote:
What is it about models or simulacra that is so fascinating?


Same answer as Scott McCloud talked about for comics: they simplify away some aspects of reality. Thus they allow us to focus on other aspects, while filling in the missing detail in our heads to make a complete picture which fits both our own experience and the experience that the model (or cartoon) is trying to show.

For cartoons, it's about visual portrayal -- a few circles and arcs can turn into a fully-characterized person in your head. For interactive models, it's about behavior. You can look at a cloud of moving dots and see a flock of birds, because that's how they move.


That's a great point!


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 8:21 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Aug 18, 2017 3:46 pm
Posts: 9
HanonO wrote:
loopernow wrote:

There's a system called Toothrot that does this.

Node JS...terminal stuff. Compile stuff separately... [Interest wanes.]

If there's not an IDE


I figured this was the case for many people and that's why I'm currently building an IDE for toothrot. It takes care of all the compile stuff for you, builds games for browser, win, mac and linux. It walks you through errors in your code, colorizes the syntax of the story format and will itself be available for windows, linux and mac. It uses the same editor widget that Visual Studio Code uses.

I'm amazed people are already finding toothrot in the depths of the internet. I didn't promote it yet because I think it's not quite ready -- but it's hopefully getting there soon. I'm currently figuring out ways to create installers/packages for the IDE, and I still need to write more documentation and example games for toothrot itself.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Sat Dec 23, 2017 1:59 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2011 8:11 am
Posts: 2757
Location: US - Central
I really appreciate that you're making it friendly for people like me. I had heard of it some time ago and remember being interested, but I am severely bad at getting systems with multiple moving parts set up.

An IDE is a big plus when getting writers without code experience to consider a system.
Thanks for the update!

_________________
http://hanonondricek.wixsite.com/pyramidif
https://pyramidif.itch.io/


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
PostPosted: Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:22 pm 
Offline

Joined: Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:52 am
Posts: 6
@dfabulich: That's a fantastic idea! The biggest problem I saw was users accidentaly typing in the final instruction (e.g. open treasure chest) and it'd end the game without any of the necessary previous steps being taken. But your suggestion would work around that nicely by forcing a unique word to trigger the next clue.

So the "source code" for a game like this would be extremely simple: a "key" that needs to be typed in, and a "secret" that is then revealed. Note that the key can't be too generic: if look would reveal You are in a dungeon, it will always do that, even if the word "look" is part of another sentence. For instance, The goblin shouts 'look out! would be turned into The goblin shouts 'You are in a dungeon out!.

A mini pseudo-adventure, in the format: key secret:

Premise: "You wake up in a room. There's a fireplace and a locked door."

Look at fireplace. It's empty. There's a loose brick.
Take brick. There are many bricks, which one?
Take loose brick. The brick reveals a red key. You take it.
Open door. It is locked.
Open door with key. Which key?
Open door with red key. You are free! Game over.
Unlock door. With what?
Unlock door with key. Which key?
Unlock door with red key. You are free! Game over.

Some observations:

Since there's no state, these lines could both be "programmed" in any order, and could be typed in by the player in any order.

There is no wiggle room in interpretation: the key needs to be typed in exactly as provided in the "program". If you want to make multiple ways of writing work, you'll have to type them all out:

Open door with red key. You are free! Game over.
Open the door with red key. You are free! Game over.
Open door with the red key. You are free! Game over.
Open the door with the red key. You are free! Game over.

Etcetera. Also, every key is case sensitive, and spaced and punctuation need to match the key 100% as well.

I know this is hardly ideal, and of course you're better off with a proper parser/engine, but I for one really enjoy the idea that maybe there's a way to put a creative, fun little adventure into a font. As I said, I'm more of a tech guy, but if you feel the same and want to try writing something like this, let me know :-)


Top
 Profile Send private message  
Reply with quote  
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 24 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 6 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group