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PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 11:20 am 
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...in a competition traditionally associated with parser games?

YES!

The Angel of Death is slow to change minds. While the Angel rests, take up the blessed sword!
Rain blessings on the good. Even the hypertext good.
Rain wrath on the evil. Including the hypertext evil.

Don't wait for the Angel!
Play hypertext games.
Vote for hypertext games.

You can learn to play a new game by playing it. The idea of this post is that by taking a chance and playing hypertext games you can learn how to play them, eventually, how to understand what they are trying to do, and why.

It's a journey I have begun but not yet completed. Hence my doubts.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 11:24 am 
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I think that battle is over and everyone won. [emote];)[/emote]


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 11:28 am 
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Is it? Until a hypertext game wins the question of voting bias won't go away.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 11:32 am 
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Not really. Hypertext games have gotten amazing places last year, to the extent that it was very unlikely there was bias - the game people liked best simply happened to be parser. Of course, I have no idea if this is true, not being a mind reader, [emote];)[/emote] but there have been no demonstrations as big as last year's "Parser Is Dead" fiasco.

Of course, if people who genuinely like parser best (and this started off as a parser community) rate a parser game higher because they genuinely thought it was better than its closest hypertext competitor... that surely doesn't count as bias.

I *would* be amazingly wary of a hypertext winning "just because a hypertext game has to win to make a point". It's all about the games, not the development system...

EDIT - Also, is it wise to have a poll like this? If someone actually starts voting "no", won't there suddenly be a lot more trouble than it was worth? It's the old adage, "don't ask questions you won't like the answer to". And if no one votes "no", was there a point to it at all?

(which is all rather precious coming from someone like me, who could stand to think a few more times before posting anything, but there you go)


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 11:40 am 
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There are grounds to vote NO. If you believe voters don't understand and aren't trying to understand hypertext games then it isn't a level playing field. A hypertext game could be the best game but be rejected.

You learn to play a new game by playing it. The idea of the post is that by playing hypertext games you can learn how to play them, eventually, how to understand what they are trying to do, and why.

It's a journey I have begun but not yet completed. Hence my doubts.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 12:04 pm 
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I think I understand you better now. Thanks for clarifying. [emote]:)[/emote] Your original post led me to believe you were going in a different direction, sorry about that.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 12:09 pm 
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Thanks, Peter. Post amended!

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 01, 2015 1:21 pm 
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[quote="heartless zombie"]Is it? Until a hypertext game wins the question of voting bias won't go away.[/quote]
I mean Creatures Such As We got a close second last year, right? I think at this point whether or not a hypertext game wins we can at least be confident that it's possible for one to win.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 4:27 am 
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Although being familiar with a medium gives you better ability to understand what an individual work is trying to do and better criteria to form more objective judgments (obviously not completely objective), I don't think the Comp has ever required that level of critical experience. I think all that has ever been expected of judges is that they take it seriously.

I'm slowly becoming more conversant with hypertext and Twine conventions, too. But in the meantime, I think it's still okay to judge a work of a less familiar medium by the common elements and characteristics that the medium shares with other forms. You can still talk about the plot structure of a play even if you only know stories through movies and novels. A small degree of detachment among some judges and reviewers might even be a good thing.

hide'; } else { this.parentNode.parentNode.getElementsByTagName('div')[1].getElementsByTagName('div')[0].style.display = 'none'; this.innerHTML = '"theological analogy" : show'; }" />"theological analogy" : show
The Angel of Death will judge Twine by its common laws of interaction, story, and accessibility, so that no game is without excuse. The thing we can never know is whether or not the parser itself is the Way, or whether other forms will also be drawn into the Fellowship, so that the command prompt will recline with the hypertext.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 5:21 am 
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[quote="Bainespal"]I'm slowly becoming more conversant with hypertext and Twine conventions, too. But in the meantime, I think it's still okay to judge a work of a less familiar medium by the common elements and characteristics that the medium shares with other forms. You can still talk about the plot structure of a play even if you only know stories through movies and novels. A small degree of detachment among some judges and reviewers might even be a good thing.[/quote]

What if movies and novels have qualities or conventions that plays don't commonly have? By using special criteria to judge plays - criteria which apparently aren't shared by most play users - are you sitting in judgement on plays (and on play-users / play authors)?

Quote:
hide'; } else { this.parentNode.parentNode.getElementsByTagName('div')[1].getElementsByTagName('div')[0].style.display = 'none'; this.innerHTML = '"theological analogy" : show'; }" />"theological analogy" : show
The Angel of Death will judge Twine by its common laws of interaction, story, and accessibility, so that no game is without excuse. The thing we can never know is whether or not the parser itself is the Way, or whether other forms will also be drawn into the Fellowship, so that the command prompt will recline with the hypertext.


You don't have to wait for the Angel of Death, you can vote for Twine games yourself!
Don't call it "interaction" (turning a page and getting a new page is interaction!) call it "agency".

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