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 Post subject: Epistemology
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:47 am 
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I am trying Eric Eve's Epistemology in one of my games, along with the following definitions--

Code:
Thinking about is an action applying to one visible thing.

Understand "think about [any thing]" as thinking about.
Understand "think about [any known thing]" as thinking about.

Report thinking about something unknown:
say "[no thoughts]"

Report thinking about something known:
say "[the thought of the noun][paragraph break]"

A thing has a text called thought.  The thought of a thing is usually "You have no helpful thoughts about that right now."

Pondering is an action applying to one topic.

Understand "think about [text]" as pondering.

Report pondering:
say "[no thoughts]"

To say no thoughts:
say "You have no helpful thoughts on that subject right now."


I notice an oddity--if the player says something like--

>think about clothing [while looking in his own closet]

The response might be something like--

>think about clothing
(the pile of ladies' wear)
You have no helpful thoughts on that subject right now.

That noun--the pile of ladies' wear--does exist in the game--so I understand that it falls into the category of [any thing] in the Understand line above. But I can see that the player, whose character is male, might wonder if there actually is a pile of ladies' wear in the closet.

I notice some other odd things also happen--if the player says something like --

>think about tree

The response might be something like--

Which do you mean, the bunch of trees, the old oak tree, the few pine trees, the bunch of hedges, the huge old oak tree, the forest of trees, or the lone fir tree?

I note that I am adding the extension to an already-made game of over 150,000 words, that is probably part of my problem--so would you suggest that I do some major editing of my noun definitions (synonyms, etc), perhaps using a lot of 'Does the player mean thinking about' rules...?? And/or should I eliminate the 'thinking about' rules above (taken from the tutorial) and write my own??

Thanks a lot for any suggestions.


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 Post subject: Re: Epistemology
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 5:58 pm 
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The only suggestion I might offer is that per Epistemology, I believe items are marked 'known' if the item has been in scope. It's automatic. If I spent one turn in the kitchen where the breadbox is open, the loaf of bread inside is marked known whether the player examined it or even noticed it.

What you might want to do is write conditional text for the thought of items based on whether the item is 'touchable' and immediately interactable (or 'carried' or 'worn' as applicable) that reflects the message you want to convey.

Code:
The thought of the pile of ladies wear is "[if the pile of ladies wear is touchable]Wow, there's girly underpants in here, yo![otherwise]You wonder if you should steal one of Lisa's bras from that closet you were in earlier because you could probably MacGyver a wicked slingshot out of it.[end if]"

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 Post subject: Re: Epistemology
PostPosted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:45 pm 
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Thanks, Hanon.

Question-- could [any known thing] be subsumed under [any thing], and if so, why would we need both Understand lines??

Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: Epistemology
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:52 pm 
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Both of those Understand phrases were included in the Epistemology example, so I'd assume they both need to be there. I don't know the reasoning.

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 Post subject: Re: Epistemology
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 2:56 pm 
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Having two understand lines will (I think) resolve only using known items if possible. That is, it will prefer known items to unknown ones. *And*, if more than one known item matches the player's input, it will not list unknown ones in the disambiguation list. Disambiguation never crosses grammar lines.

(You can get the first effect with a DTPM rule, but not the second effect.)


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 Post subject: Re: Epistemology
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 7:25 pm 
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Thanks guys.

So, the one with [any known thing], being the more specific, takes priority, and if there aren't any known items that match, it defaults to the [any thing] line? I see.


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 Post subject: Re: Epistemology
PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:56 pm 
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Test that before you believe me.


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 Post subject: Re: Epistemology
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:06 am 
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Zarf--I'm sure you're right. All of the items in the disamb lists above were 'unknown' at that point--the very beginning of the game, and the player had not been 'outdoors', also the ladies' wear was the only thing which had 'clothes' as a synonym. And every time I tested 'thinking' on known items, it either zeroed-in on the correct item or less often there was a disamb of only known items.

I think what I might do is alter the disamb list, for the 'thinking' action--if it shows only unknown items, I may replace it with 'Can you be more specific?'. Is this do-able??


Thanks for your help, guys!


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 Post subject: Re: Epistemology
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:26 am 
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How can I access the items on a disamb list, to determine whether they are all known or unknown?? In the latter case, I want to instead print 'Can you be more specific?' or to nix the activity and say 'You don't know anything helpful about that at this time.'

Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: Epistemology
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:45 am 
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I think I've found something in the Recipe Book that might be helpful--apparently I'll have to dabble a bit in I6 to find out whether the things on the disamb list (the parse list, as it's called there) are known/unknown. Here's what I have come up with--

Code:
To say no thoughts:
say "You have no helpful thoughts on that subject right now."

Definition: a direction is matched if it fits the parse list.
Definition: a room is matched if it fits the parse list.
Definition: a thing is matched if it fits the parse list.

Rule for asking which do you mean when everything matched is unknown:
   say "[no thoughts]".

To decide whether (N - an object) fits the parse list:
   (- (FindInParseList({N})) -)

Include (-
[ FindInParseList obj i k marker;
   marker = 0;
   for (i=1 : i<=number_of_classes : i++) {
   while (((match_classes-->marker) ~= i) && ((match_classes-->marker) ~= -i)) marker++;
   k = match_list-->marker;
   if (k==obj) rtrue;
   }
   rfalse;
];
-)


Will this do the trick?

Thanks!


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